Can anyone give me a link for the detailed 210 budget/payroll? I would like to know who makes what at every school + every person in the central office. Administrators, their secretaries, curriculum and instruction personnel, coaches, etc. Does such a document exist? Thanks

What he is leaving out is the simple face that LWW was NOT built for 1300 students. Is was built because of the perceived future necessity to accommodate more than double that. The reality is that if we had to do it all over again, there is zero chance that LWW would be built and everyone knows that. There are jobs at stake at LWW and because of that he continues to deny any discussion of closing LWW. Grammer school enrollments will continue to go down and the taxpayers deserve better. Everyone is hurting. Tough choices will be made by school districts all over America. Sometimes the hardest thing is also the right thing. The closing of LWW is only a matter of time and students will get a great education at the other three schools. I just wish someone would stand up for the taxpayers on these issues. Administrators will ALWAYS be self serving and at odds with taxpayers best interests.

Beating a dead horse Roscrea...simply not going to happen. Must focus efforts elsewhere.

familytaxpayers.org

These teachers are unbelievable! I bet most of them don't even have college degrees...

Why do kids even need to go to school? I dropped out of school in the 10th grade and here I am making $35,000 year! There's no way I'd be making that kind of money if I went to high school...

East and Central have a student capacity of 3750 and North and West have student capacity of 2500 with the ability to expand to 3750. The capacity of LW 210 is 12,500 right now. The actual student population (not available on the LW website, unless you can find where it is hidden) is about 7500. LW, under Wyllie and his rubber stamp Board, build North and West after a demographic report was presented by a high paid consultant. They made a mistake and they don't want to admit it. The tax money to pay this was created out of extending the debt of the District for a number years so the District tax rate wouldn't increase and the people wouldn't realize they were being jobbed. Wyllie admits that the Board has not spend a minute on this matter. I suggest they should at least spend 2 minutes on it. 210 better never come to the people for a referendum. You have wasted money and you, Wyllie, simply disrespect the people of the district who agree that LW is a great institution but it has been mismanaged and the day of reckoning, because of this economy, is coming sooner than later. Of course, Wyllie won't care, he'll be retired.

Why do teachers need a salary? They should get paid by the hour like I do! They're basically just babysitters. Pay them whatever the going rate for babysitters is. Would you pay the babysitter if your kid ran away while they were watching them? Heck, no! So I aint paying no teacher that doesn't give my kids straight A's...

Mokena Mike, you're hilarious. It's too bad nobody else can read sarcasm.

Here we go-----Just listening to Dr. Wyllie's explanation it is evident that his and the board's position is " Its for the Kids". The standard answer for educators no matter what position they are in. As taxpayers and parents become more and more aware of the unrealistic and unsustainable labor agreements and administrator contracts (which are the true drivers of continous property tax and fee increases) things may change. To be continued...

The pay is one thing.But a pension of 75% of your average last four years..must be nice.I give teachers credit they are educated and some well worth the salary they get I'm sure. But How hard are you going to really work when your raises are guaranteed..everybody in the economy is suffering except our district teachers.people taking pay cuts or no cost of living raises(not our teachers)

Interestingly enough, we pay our babysitter $10/hr. If a teacher received $10/hr per student, that would equate to $300/hr. that's $2,400 per day, and at 190 days = $456,000. I would do that.

What is true is that teaching is one of the few professions (possibly the only profession) where working beyond the end of the day happens more often than not, while devoid of hope for receiving compensation for that extra time. What I mean by that is while many people may not "punch the clock", they will in some way be rewarded for that extra effort. If you're an hourly worker, it's pretty obvious - but even if you're a middle management, your boss may recognize the extra hours, and you may get a raise. Teachers do not get raises based upon their effort. They get raises based on their years of experience and the # of credits they have beyond a bachelor's, etc. You could claim that therein lies a problem with the profession, and you'd be right - but that does not detract from the fact that the majority of teachers work past the required # of hours per day with no hope of being compensated for those extra hours. Out of curiosity - someone tell me another profession that does that.

Brent --Here we go-------In response to your question------In the private sector it is more the norm to take home work than not in salaried and many clock punching positions. It is not always expected but many due it for various reasons but mostly because they care. The same for many teachers and administrators. The problem we have in our local school districts is plain and simple. The cost to serve taxes and fees are now unrealistic and unsustainable for many taxpayers and parents. It does not really matter who's fault it is/was on how the district got into that position because that is yesterdays news, but were district 210 and other districts in our area go from this point with cost planning and actual spending does matter. Hopefully Dr. Wyllie and the board will stop excuse management. To be continued...

True enough, but you avoided my main point. My point is that a doctor working 80 hrs per week is rewarded by proportionately more income. If you want to say that it is because they care, you are probably right, but they are still compensated for their time. If you are in sales, and you work long hours, you will likely be compensated monetarily for it. Do you care about your customer? - probably at some level, but the key point is that you are financially compensated for it. Teachers are not.

To address your main point about the unsustainability of our current school system, I agree also. I just hope people realize that you need to preserve the heart of the educational system, the classroom teacher, and start cutting waste elsewhere first. There is a tremendous amount of waste - and it starts with layers of administration and district personnel who never come into contact with a student. Priorities people.

Who cares if these glorified babysitters work extra hours? I have to drive 20 minutes to work EACH WAY and I don't even get reimbursed for gas! It's easy to work a few extra hours when all you do is show movies every day and draw pictures on the chalk board...

JTD - I agree that pension reform needs to be discussed. But at that point you have a real fight on your hands, because I would assume that you are suggesting that the entire State pension system would need to be assessed, and not just the teachers, correct? IL is famous the throughout the country for political misconduct - and I would fully support you in scrutinizing every State pension out there - but I would not single out teachers.

Can anyone explain how the IL teachers fund their pensions differently than other states? I am under the impression that IL teachers do not participate (are not eligible) for social security based on how they are paid. In Wisconsin, teachers are eligible for soc sec, for example.

JTD - I understand your critique on teacher motivation as it relates to student achievement versus guaranteed raises based on years of experience. Having taught, I can tell you without a doubt that this system (based upon education and # of years of experience) is not a perfect system, but the alternative is not feasible. I taught all levels of science - and teaching entry level/remedial science is much harder than teaching "upper level" classes in the sense that you are working with a less motivated population. You can bring your most interesting lessons, labs, energy to your class, and if your kids are not as interested in the laws of physics as you are, they may not thrive. It sounds like a cop out, I understand, but you really are at the mercy of your kids' willingness to achieve. Take a pregnant, alcoholic, homeless teen who only speaks Hmong and convince her that she needs to know how many isotopes of carbon there are. That may be an extreme example, but if you have not taught, you may not fully understand what an obstacle apathy and language barriers, can be. There are also a lot students out there working late hours so that they can pay for their car insurance or gas or beer. I don't think a teacher should be penalized for not being able to reach every student when they are up against some very real obstacles. I wish there were a way to reward teachers who routinely have classes that excel, because it is an imperfect system right now admittedly.

Regarding pensions the biggest reason they are underfunded is because the state has skipped several of its required payments into the fund. When the state opted out of Social Security, it agreed to pay the employer portion just like private employers pay part of their employees' SS. Of course IL politicians found that skipping those payments is an easy way to balance the budget. On the other hand the teachers and other public employees always pay their share because that money is taken directly out of their checks.

Thanks BGresident - we're recent transplants to IL, so I missed the fact that the State had opted out of social security. I think it's important for people to recognize that fact when they discuss pensions.

Lets just say you have a teacher making 125,000 a year for the last four years. so 75% of 125,000 or social security? Then the they get hired back part time for another great salary.I wont lie I wouldn't turn it down if I was a teacher but you cant tell me the teachers don't know thats a great deal.The ones who married another teacher in the district have to be laughing every night over dinner talking about retiring with two great pensions.And yes I know not all districts get paid good like ours do.

John d - I'll decide if you're staying after hours for no reward. What do you do for a living? Teachers are paid for 190 days work in Wisconsin, and I think slightly less in IL. They are not paid for Christmas, summer vacation, etc. People have a hard time conceptualizing that.

BGresident and Brent----could you please explain the 66666 language in the teacher contract concerning pensions, along with the payout received after retirement. Is this language State law or just local contract language. Does this language inflate pension cost increasing taxes and fees on the taxpayer and parents. Do teachers and the administration also get to bank a certain portion of any unused 15 or so sick/personal days they receive every year and then cash them out just before retirement . Does this sick/personal day language inflate pension cost along with increasing the taxes and fees on the taxpayer and parents. Is this sick day language State law or just local contract language. Also is it true that teachers, administrators receive a 3% raise every year to their retirement check for the rest of their life regardless of budget and economic conditions. Some people may have a different take on the State's pension mess and to the reasons for the problems.

I'm not a LW employee and I'm therefore not up on all their contract details. Here's what I know.

1. TRS members can at this time convert up to two years worth of sick days to service credit so they can retire before their 30 years if they are older than 55. Each pension is different, so SURS (for college employees) does not allow the two years but gives up to one year credit. I'm not sure about TRS rules on cash out, but in SURS we cannot do that. I believe the Chicago system (not what LW people are in) allows cash out for administrators but again that's not what happens in most of the pensions.

2. I think the payout is for early retirements. Where I work, the administration WANTS us to retire because higher paid older teachers make more than young ones just out of college. It saves the district money to get rid of that older person rather than to pay the salary.

3. New hires are on a lower tier. They have to work longer and get lower pensions than pre-2011 employees.

4. Even people who paid into SS cannot draw if they have the pensions. They lose that credit.

Here's a good graphic about the lack of funding.
http://www.ilretirementsecurity.org/news?id=0089

BGresident---Thanks for the reply ---- In reviewing your communications concerning the 66666 contract language which for the readers means a automatic extra 6% raise plus cost of living along with their nomal negotiated raise each year for the last 5 working years does truly inflate pension liablility for the State and also increases local taxes and fees on the taxpayer and parents.These 6% wage increases must not be law only local contract language. Concerning the 15 or so sick/personal days received per year banking even though allowed by the State it must not be law and only local contract language once again like the 66666 both inflate pension liability and increase local taxes and fees. As for the payouts these must also not be State law only local contract language. The social security issue many understand and agree with you on that, but the problem is with what many call pension padding by the use of sick day/personal day banking along with the 66666 language and payouts to increase pension benefits in unheard in private sector and other state public sector labor agreements and pension systems mainly because they would be unsustainable. I do not know ,but maybe you do ---do the administrators also receive these in their contacts with the board

Regarding the 66666 language increases--a few years ago, the state passed a law limiting annual salary increases in years leading to retirement. This was done to avoid the problems of (mostly) administrators who were getting HUGE increases in their final years--as in doubling their salaries and such. Now, most districts set the contract to increase that allowed amount but not a bit over it. Where I am, we actually had to scale back on some of our top salaries to meet the cap. I think it's under 6% though don't quote me on that :).

Administrative salaries are negotiated individually.

The number of sick days available per year is by district contract. Crediting a certain number can be credited to service years for retirement is determined state law governing each pension. Though state costs increase, one could argue it lowers local district cost. If a teacher retires a year early, the district saves money on salary. The pension fund is now paying her. She does not get "cash" for those banked days which are applied to retirement. The replacement hire makes less and (probably) has lower health care costs to the local district (due to being younger). That's why the local districts have been traditionally encouraged employees to retire as soon as they're able to. "Costs" are really complex, and if you cut down on a cost somewhere, you might have unintended ones elsewhere.

I think some of these provisions have been encouraged by local districts which have not had to pay a penny towards retirement pensions. Of course, the state has not paid its payments either, but that's a separate issue.

Here is the address of the TRS website: http://trs.illinois.gov/. If you have actual questions about teacher retirement in Illinois, it may be of help. There are laws now in place that do impact contributions to the system, most of the max./min. are established through TRS.

By the way, with all this interest in LW210, has anyone actually checked out their tax bills? It is District 122 that is really impacting your taxes, almost 50% of your bill is paid to this district. Also, elementary school teachers (in general, 122 in particular) are not as well compensated as high school teachers. Many teachers (in high schools) coach or moderate clubs (very time consuming) in order to earn "extra" money through stipends; those opportunities are not readily available to elementary school teachers. Everyone is up in arms about the high school situation, when the elementary schools are also in similar situations.

I have cut and pasted a statement from someone commenting on the US Postal Service and the impending closures of rural branches around the country. I repeat - this is not me: "With the amount of money we've wasted on fraud, waste, wars, etc....it's ridiculous that we don't have free internet for everyone, free water, free electricity, etc...taxes should cover these things...they are basic necessities."

People have stuck to pension reform in this discussion, which may be the biggest driver of costs, but people also need to really reflect on the services that schools are providing, which I deem outside the usual and customary. Are we obligated to provide child care for teenage girls who have children of their own? Are we obligated to feed students breakfast, lunch and dinner on the taxpayer's dime? School psychologists? One on one aides? Do we need to subsidize athletes for their ice time in hockey? Guidance counselors? Police officers? Athletic directors with their own secretaries? Drivers' education?

My point is that all of those things are very nice. But so is free water, free internet, and free electricity. Schools have expanded their roles greatly. People forget many of the new realms that the schools have entered. If we as a society/district value those things, so be it - but there is a price associated with every new role the school takes on beyond its primary role of educating our youth.

Many times the general public may not understand things that are required. Lunch programs are MANDATED, by either the U.S. government or the state. Security/police are a safety issue, and we all want safe schools. 1:1 aides become part of student IEP's and those psychologists are also required to diagnose and evaluate special needs. Driver's education is a STATE of IL mandate, as is required ACT testing. Federal and state mandates require standardized testing, therefore students are bombarded w/standardized tests, which also cost a district dearly. I just thought I would let people know that in order to be a "school" in Illinois, you have to meet certain criteria, and that often costs money.

BGresident---- One thing is for sure the local board can save the taxpayer and parents money and fees by reducing cost thru the negotiation process with the teacher association(union) and administrator contracts by reducing the number of sick/personal days including the 66666 practice and retirement payouts that no one else in the private sector and other state public sector unions seem to enjoy. I think District 210 teachers already pay a small portion of benefit coverage concerning healthcare and also pay towards their pension but I could be mistaken. The administrators are another story, it looks like 100% medical and pension contibutions are paid by the board. One thing is for sure the district can save millions or increase cost by millions burdoning the taxpayer and parents more and more with higher taxes and fees and cut programs for the students by continuing to allow such practices and agreeing to them in their labor agreements and admiminstrator contracts. The way some people see it, pure wages are not the main issue just these unheard of perks arguably for pension padding that are not required by law. It should be an interesting year for all involved with District 210 including the taxpayer and parents with teacher contract negotiations coming up. Thanks for sharing you thoughts and information

All members of TRS (and the other state pensions) pay a portion of their salary into their retirement. That is not optional. It's state law. That money is deducted from every single paycheck. Administrators pay that too.

Con Serned - your point is well taken, but something that we must acknowledge is the fact that there are many people who are dissatisfied with school performance in general - many of these individuals are pro-charter schools, or more likely pro-voucher. You have listed several unfunded mandates. At some juncture, these costly rules can bankrupt a system. If you are a proponent of public schools, at some point we need to tackle some of these issues ourselves, or the more drastic changes will be forced upon us.

There are private schools who can educate kids for less than the $10,000-$12,000 per pupil cost to many public schools. You would say that they do not have to play by the same rules that the public schools do, and you'd be right. The question is where is the breaking point when people successfully defund public schools through the voucher system - or some other legislative act - because we cannot control costly unfunded mandates? I'm pro-public schools, but I think the federal government has little to no place in the schools.

BGresident------Unless the portion of the teacher/administrator pension contribution mandated by law is picked up by the school district. Some school districts have that language in their labor agreements and administrator contracts. In a nutshell 100% of their pension contribution is paid for by the districts board which is a direct cost to the taxpayer and parents in local taxes. Nothing is paid by the teacher or admininstrator.This also applies to health care coverage and on and on. All District labor agreements and administrator cost and other mandated information must be posted on the school districts website. It is just a matter of taking the time to find and read them and form your own opinion of which many I have. I know it was an eye opener for me comparing them to private sector and other public sector labor agreements and contracts I have seen. Much of the language is unsustainable with out continuous hugh property tax increases along with increased fees and cutting of student activities. This is exatly what is happening now with many school district's projected budgets and cost including district 210 and other local districts in the area.

Simple comment here... It is just a shame that because of a guestimate of the district population busting at the seams by 2018 that this even had to happen. The end result is going to be bad and everyone is going to pay for it one way or another. Loss of teachers, schools, taxes going up, loss of jobs, fees going up and the ones who won't suffer are the ones who started it.